Erratic TV Switch-On

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Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Tue 26. May 2009, 20:24

I'm getting erratic behaviour when trying to turn a TV on by sending the signal for a channel. In case it's important, it's a Ferguson W70201S TV and I'm using Windows XP SP3.

With the real remote control I need a longer press on the Channel 2 button to get the TV to switch on. I've tried learning both shorter and longer presses. When I learn Channel 2 as a shorter press, I get the following:

[TIMING]
[0][N]2[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[RC]3[RP]40[FREQ]39

[COMMANDS]
[2][T]0[D]0011100010000

However, if I learn the Channel 2 button again I get:

[2][T]0[D]0011000010000

In fact, the remote control seems to toggle the fifth bit from the left on every press. Thus, if I learn Channel 2 again it goes back to the first code above.

If I learn the Channel 2 button with a longer press, the toggle bit still changes - but the timing is of course longer.

When the TV is already on and the channel is set to 2, use of this toggle bit doesn't seem to matter. But when the TV is in standby, it seems to be necessary to get the toggle bit right - but that is only a guess. It also doesn't matter whether I use the long or short version of this code - switch-on is still erratic.

I can't guess what the cause of this problem is:

o There seem to be "learn with repeat code" and "learn toggle code" options.
However, there isn't enough information in the IRTrans manual to work out when
and how these should be used. Should I be using one of these options?

o Is it possible that timing is the problem? Switch-on sometimes works, and
sometimes doesn't. That might suggest timing or frequency is slightly wrong.

o I seem to have most problems when IRServer has just been started. However, I
can't easily tell if this not working because (1) it is the first
code being sent by the IRTrans or (2) the toggle bit is wrong or (3) the
timing is not quite right.

Thanks for any help.
kjt
 
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Joined: Tue 26. May 2009, 20:15

Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby IRTrans » Wed 27. May 2009, 09:29

Hmm, difficult to say what is causing your problem here ...

Toggle bits usually don't make any problem on the first button press - therefore I suppose that this is not the problem.

If you have a look at detected IR Commands: Does the toggle bit change each time you press a remote button ?
Newer firmware versions of the IRTrans can also generate toggle bits that can be defined freely - if that is really needed.
If yes, we can upgrade the firmware of your device.

Please try to modify the IR code by changing the repeat count (the value behind [RC]) to a higher value (e.g. 10) and see if that switches on the TV.
If yes you can enter a 2nd timing manually with the longer repeat count.

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Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Wed 27. May 2009, 11:53

Thanks for the reply. I'm almost certain this is a problem with the toggle bit. Every time a button is pressed on the remote control, the fifth bit from the left is toggled in the signal. I have checked this with a variety of buttons. (Are bits numbered as 0 from the left or the right as presented by IRTrans?)

When the TV is powered up, the toggle bit for a channel signal seems to be irrelevant - I can change channels just fine. But when the TV is in standby, this bit is important. The first time I send a Channel 2 signal, it is ignored. The second time it powers up the TV. (It seems I cannot repeat this signal too quickly or it is ignored.)

I have a similar problem with the Mute and AV buttons. I have had to learn two versions of each (fifth bit set and unset). When the TV is on, sending a Mute signal works. But if I send it again it is ignored. I have to send the toggled version of Mute for the sound to come on again. Similarly, the first AV signal works. But I have to send the toggled version to make AV work a second time.

I don't know why the TV is like this. It must be a known "feature", because I can control this TV successfully with a One-For-All controller, and also from the remote control for my Panasonic DVD recorder (which also has a TV control section on the remote).

Essentially it looks like the IRTrans software needs to do what the remote control does: alternate the fifth bit on every signal. Does the firmware upgrade you mentioned do this? I have six IRTrans USB modules with serial numbers like 038848019. They were bought a few months ago.

Many thanks for the help.
kjt
 
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Joined: Tue 26. May 2009, 20:15

Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Wed 27. May 2009, 12:02

It seems the number I read from the device is some product code and not a serial number. The IRTransTray log reports Version U6.02.04, FW Sno 38848, FW Cap 0x43850db/0x71.
kjt
 
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Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby IRTrans » Wed 27. May 2009, 12:57

Your Firmware already supports the togglebit generation.

Simply add "[TOGGLE][4][01]" to your timing. That means the timing will look like

[0][N]2[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[RC]3[RP]40[FREQ]39[TOGGLE][4][01]

I have seen this IR code once with a carrier frequency of 33kHz. That means you might be able to improve the range by using that carrier:

The timing line

[0][N]2[1]464 2064[2]464 4592[RC]2[FL]80[FREQ]33[FREQ-MEAS][TOGGLE][4][01]

might even work better.

You can try out both to see which works best.

IMPORTANT: Please do not forget to restart the IRTrans SW after changing a .rem file manually !


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Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Wed 27. May 2009, 14:59

Well, it some ways it's better and in some ways it's worse. Mute and AV now work properly. The channel 4-9 signals now power up the TV correctly from standby. However, the channel 1-3 signals now don't work at all (TV on or in standby). If I omit "[TOGGLE][4][01]" from the timing, then all channel signals work when the TV is on.

I have relearned the channel codes many times, and get identical data. You will see from the following that indeed the fifth bit is toggled on each remote control button press.

I tried 33KHz as you suggested, but that doesn't work. I tried [FL]80 instead of [RP]40, but that doesn't help. I tried [RC]9, but that doesn't help.

As you will see below, there is some problem with IRTransTray reading the toggle settings. This may be why channel 1-3 no longer work.

Here is the .rem file I'm using:

Code: Select all
[REMOTE]
  [NAME]TV_Lounge

[TIMING]
  [0][N]2[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[RC]3[RP]40[FREQ]38[TOGGLE][4][01]

[COMMANDS]
  [Power][T]0[D]0011000111010

  [Vol+][T]0[D]0011101010010
  [Vol-][T]0[D]0011001010100
  [Mute][T]0[D]0011000001010

  [Chan+][T]0[D]0011001001010
  [Chan-][T]0[D]0011001001110
  [AV][T]0[D]0011000110000

  [0][T]0[D]0011100011100
  [1][T]0[D]0011000000000
  [2][T]0[D]0011100010000
  [3][T]0[D]0011000100000
  [4][T]0[D]0011100000010
  [5][T]0[D]0011000010010
  [6][T]0[D]0011100100010
  [7][T]0[D]0011000000100
  [8][T]0[D]0011100010100
  [9][T]0[D]0011000100100


When this is loaded by IRTransTray, it reports an error:

Code: Select all
Init Server Socket done
Init Events done
1 USB Devices found
IRTRans Send Done: 1
Name   : IRTrans USB
Version: U6.02.04
FW SNo : 38848
Capab  : Power On; Soft ID; Dual Transmitter Drivers;
FW Cap : 0x43850db
FW Cap2: 0x71
USB SNo: MMRVI3N1
Node   : USB

Init communication ...
IRServer Version 6.01.04
[ 0]: IRTrans USB          U6.02.04     SN: 38848
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Too many toggle bits [See below for Remote name]
Remote tv_lounge            compiled:     1 Timings -     17 Commands
Total:   1 Remotes  -   1 Timings -   17 Commands -    0 Calib. Commands
         0 CCF Data -   0 CCF RAW -    0 CCF Error
IRTRans Send Done: 1


Any inspirations? Thanks.
kjt
 
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Joined: Tue 26. May 2009, 20:15

Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Wed 27. May 2009, 15:17

By the way, it's evident from the LED on the top of the IRTrans that "[TOGGLE][4][01]" causes different behaviour on alternate signals. What is odd is that the IRTrans alternates between a short red flash and a lengthy red-green-red signal. My manual (version 3.03) doesn't describe the [TOGGLE] setting so I don't know what it's meant to do.
kjt
 
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Joined: Tue 26. May 2009, 20:15

Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby IRTrans » Wed 27. May 2009, 15:59

Hmm, the .rem file is surely OK.

You are right - the LED blinking is surely not correct - it looks like the device reboots sometimes.

Please try downloading the current SW from our website - we will see if that helps. If not we can in addition update the firmware of your devices.

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Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby kjt » Wed 27. May 2009, 18:06

The latest version of the software (21st May 2009) works rather better. All channel signals now work reliably when the TV is on. However, they don't reliably bring the TV out of standby. Empirically, it seems that I need to send a channel signal twice to power the TV up. I'll just deal with this in my own software.

In case you or anyone comes across a TV like this again, below is the final version of my .rem file.

Thanks for your help and patience.

Code: Select all
; Remote control commands for a Ferguson W70201S TV with remote control handset
; TV/MultiVCR MB2100:
;   o to bring the TV out of standby, two channel signals are normally needed
;     (about one second apart)
;   o channels 10 and above need two digits in quick succession

[REMOTE]
  [NAME]Ferguson_W70201S

[TIMING]
  [0][N]2[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[RC]3[RP]40[FREQ]38[TOGGLE][4][01]
  [1][N]2[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[RC]1[RP]40[FREQ]38[TOGGLE][4][01]

[COMMANDS]
  [Power][T]0[D]0011000111010

  [Vol+][T]1[D]0011101010010
  [Vol-][T]1[D]0011001010100
  [Mute][T]0[D]0011000001010

  [Chan+][T]0[D]0011001001010
  [Chan-][T]0[D]0011001001110
  [AV][T]0[D]0011000110000

  [0][T]0[D]0011100011100
  [1][T]0[D]0011000000000
  [2][T]0[D]0011100010000
  [3][T]0[D]0011000100000
  [4][T]0[D]0011100000010
  [5][T]0[D]0011000010010
  [6][T]0[D]0011100100010
  [7][T]0[D]0011000000100
  [8][T]0[D]0011100010100
  [9][T]0[D]0011000100100
kjt
 
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Joined: Tue 26. May 2009, 20:15

Re: Erratic TV Switch-On

Postby IRTrans » Wed 27. May 2009, 19:12

Thank you for the info - however I would like to know why that does not work reliably.

I suppose the reason is, that the longer keypress needs to be sent with different toggle bits.

Therefore I would suggest using the following codes:

Timing:
[3][N]3[1]512 2024[2]512 4552[3]512 40000[RC]2[RP]40[FREQ]38


Power On code (e.g. Channel 1):

[1P][T]3[D]00110000000020011100000000

This code will sent the code with both toggle options in succession (here for channel 1).

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